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Ethnic Differences in the UK
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There's also the child (Nahla) of actress Halle Berry:

In a new interview with EBONY Magazine, Berry says (via TMZ), "I feel she's Black. I'm Black and I'm her mother, and I believe in the one-drop theory."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/08/halle-berry-daughter-nahla-is-black-from-one-drop-rule_n_820071.html

Halle Berry is actually mixed.

Berry was born Maria Halle Berry, though her name was legally changed to Halle Maria Berry at the age of five.[4] Berry's parents selected her middle name from Halle's Department Store, which was then a local landmark in her birthplace of Cleveland, Ohio.[5] Her mother, Judith Ann (née Hawkins),[6] who is Caucasian, and has English and German ancestry, was a psychiatric nurse.[7] Her father, Jerome Jesse Berry, was an African American hospital attendant in the same psychiatric ward where her mother worked; he later became a bus driver.[5][8] Berry's maternal grandmother, Nellie Dicken, was born in the United Kingdom (Sawley, Derbyshire, England), while her maternal grandfather, Earl Ellsworth Hawkins, was born in Ohio.[9] Berry's parents divorced when she was four years old; she and her older sister, Heidi Berry-Henderson,[10] were raised exclusively by her mother.[5] Berry has said in published reports that she has been estranged from her father since her childhood,[5][11] noting in 1992, "I haven't heard from him since [he left]. Maybe he's not alive."[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle_Berry#Early_life

So, a rough estimate of Nahla's African admixture is half of her mothers since the father is Euro who average a very low African admixture. Since Berry is the daughter of one African American and one Caucasian (Euro most likely), and the mean African ancestry of African Americans is around 75%, this means that Berry herself is about 37.5% (75%/2) African. Her daughter is then 18.75% (37.5%/2) African, yet Berry calls her 'black' due to one-drop rule.

If practices like the above are widespread, it makes hard to conclude much from the UK data when we don't know the average admixture %.
It would be nice to have some admixture data to test Frost's idea with. We know that in the US, Blacks are 20-25% European depending on the area (more in the north). What's the number for UK?


Self-identifying British Blacks are mostly African. Shriver, et al. (2003) estimated 87.9% as compared to 78.7% for U.S. Blacks.
Admin
Good find. However:

We have examined three population samples: a sample of 232 African and African-American individuals living in Washington, D.C., a sample of 173 British African Caribbean persons, and a sample of 187 individuals of European-American ancestry living in State College, Pa. The sample from Washington, D.C. consisted of self-reported African Americans from the Howard University campus and surrounding area. Recruitment was primarily through flyers placed around the University and by word of mouth. Volunteers came from the student body, staff, faculty and the surrounding community. This sample of individuals represents a heterogeneous selection of persons with regards to personal history, national origins and cultural and biological backgrounds. In general terms, this sample is a selection of volunteers, who would declare in the US that they are Black with primarily African ancestry. The British African Caribbean sample was ascertained in Britain through flyers and advertisements regarding the study. Volunteers who phoned in were invited to participate if all four of their grandparents were of African-Caribbean ancestry. The European-American sample from State College, Pa. was collected as part of an ongoing study of the genetics of common traits in the Anthropometrics Laboratory located in the Penn State General Clinical Research Center.

For each of these surveys, volunteers contacted the study coordinators and then either came to the clinic or were then visited at their place of abode where they gave informed consent, filled out a demographic questionnaire and gave cheek cells or blood for DNA. Each person at all three sites was then measured for skin pigmentation by using a DermaSpectrometer (cyberDerm, Media, Pa.) three times on the medial aspect of each arm and these values were averaged together as previously described (Shriver and Parra 2001). Following the interview and examination, blood for DNA was taken by venipuncture, except in the British African Caribbean sample where cheek swabs were used to collect DNA samples. This study was approved by the IRB committees of both Penn State University (State College and British samples) and Howard University (Washington, D.C. samples).


Since the people who phoned in consider themselves African Caribbean, but some of them did not have 4 African Caribbean ancestors (as far as they know), we don't know what the admixture is of the group who consider themselves "African Caribbean" in the UK. This is a selected sample for higher African Caribbean ancestry.
If we look at "blacks" in the British West Indies, European admixture ranges from a high of 12.4 in Jamaica to a low of 10.2 in Barbados, see:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2007.00398.x/full

I find it very difficult to believe that the degree of European admixture has not increased at all over the past sixty years that the Afro-Caribbean community has resided in England. Moreover, at present, half of Afro-Caribbean men in England are living with a non-black partner. The "black" children now entering English schools are to a large extent a product of this kind of cohabitation.

You could counter-argue that these children self-identify as "mixed" and not as "black." If that were the case, we should see a sharp decline in the number of "black" children. But that isn't the case.
Admin
Unless there was new immigrants coming in from the same place, no?
Well I have been trying to get the Dutch Cito scores for you Chuck, sadly though it was with little success. All I managed was this:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/cito-scores-2014-vergelijk-scholen-jouw-gemeente

This shows some more info on the improvements or lack there of in grades since 2012.
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/bekijk-de-cito-score-van-jouw-school

It shows the scores by schools. The schools with the lowest grades are still heavily immigrant though, seem to be few so perhaps they have decreased in number. Also saw one Islamic school that did pretty well.

Bottom line I cant really tell. Might help though, so here you go.

Edit: The first link is some sort of rating other than the scores I think. The second one actually shows the scores.
Well I have been trying to get the Dutch Cito scores for you Chuck, sadly though it was with little success. All I managed was this:
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/cito-scores-2014-vergelijk-scholen-jouw-gemeente

This shows some more info on the improvements or lack there of in grades since 2012.
http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/bekijk-de-cito-score-van-jouw-school

It shows the scores by schools. The schools with the lowest grades are still heavily immigrant though, seem to be few so perhaps they have decreased in number. Also saw one Islamic school that did pretty well.

Bottom line I cant really tell. Might help though, so here you go.

Edit: The first link is some sort of rating other than the scores I think. The second one actually shows the scores.


Thanks for looking. That really doesn't give us what we want though.
Well I have been trying to get the Dutch Cito scores for you Chuck, sadly though it was with little success. All I managed was this: http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/cito-scores-2014-vergelijk-scholen-jouw-gemeente


Edits made. I attached a paper which breaks Antillean + Surinamese scores down by generations. You will notice that by the 3rd the Reading and Numeracy gaps, averaged across ages, come out to about 5 AQ points. About 1/2 of Antilleans and 1/4 Surinamese parents would have out-married, so the European Admixture would be higher in the third than second than first generation. (One sees a similar pattern amongst U.S. Hispanics, just the gaps decrease much less). Also Surinamese are about 52% Indian + Javanese (who are mostly South Asian), 31% Creole, and 10% African -- it's not obvious what their predicted genotypic IQ would be. Nonetheless, the (3rd generation) gaps are pretty small in my opinion. It would be interesting to look at them by generation by parental endogenous status. Adjusted for Dutch ancestry there might well be a year x generation effect such that the gaps vanish. Ya, as I've said, the European results don't well support a strong hereditarian hypothesis -- at least nothing like Lynn (2006/2008) suggested. But they don't yet challenge a modest one.
By the way, here were the most recent (2014) integration report education results. See also on page 8 of the official report, "Gemiddeld percentage vragen goed op Eindtoets Basisonderwijs naar geslacht, 2013". I'm not seeing much change from 2008, though I couldn't find Cito standardized scores. So I don't know.
Well I have been trying to get the Dutch Cito scores for you Chuck, sadly though it was with little success. All I managed was this: http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/cito-scores-2014-vergelijk-scholen-jouw-gemeente


Edits made. I attached a paper which breaks Antillean + Surinamese scores down by generations...


Has anyone done a review of IQ studies for Turks? From what I've seen, they do consistently poorly in Europe. There are lots of complaints about them in Germany and the Netherlands. I looked at some of the UK studies, and the Turks ranked near the very bottom in academic performance -- I think even lower than Blacks -- but the UK Turk population is quite small.

On the other hand, the Turkish population in the US does okay, but again it's a small population and probably positively selected and unrepresentative, so it's hard to come to any firm conclusions.

Turkey has a large population (76.5 million) and could be a source of future immigrants into Europe, so it's not an irrelevant question.
By the way, here were the most recent (2014) integration report education results. See also on page 8 of the official report, "Gemiddeld percentage vragen goed op Eindtoets Basisonderwijs naar geslacht, 2013". I'm not seeing much change from 2008, though I couldn't find Cito standardized scores. So I don't know.


You mean: "Gemiddeld percentage goed beantwoorde vragen op Eindtoets Basisonderwijs van Cito" right?

Percentage of correctly answered questions for maths and language? Yeah those have not changed much. They seem to have gone up and down for everyone pretty much equally.

Does it account for generation or is it including new immigrants? I assume its including new immigrants but since I cant understand Dutch I want to make sure.

As for the rest, no killer blow yet thats for sure.
[quote='Chuck' pid='2383' dateline='1417319059']
Edits made. I attached a paper which breaks Antillean + Surinamese scores down by generations. You will notice that by the 3rd the Reading and Numeracy gaps, averaged across ages, come out to about 5 AQ points. About 1/2 of Antilleans and 1/4 Surinamese parents would have out-married, so the European Admixture would be higher in the third than second than first generation. (One sees a similar pattern amongst U.S. Hispanics, just the gaps decrease much less).



It would also be good to know the "purely" mixed race score is in Holland. Like the ones in UK.

I think if you can prove the mixed race score virtually vanished like in the UK and prove its not because of selective mates you got a bullet proof case against HBD with regards to race.
Admin
The Turks do very poorly in Denmark. There are PISA scores available for them, see Table 2.3. Their crime rate goes up in the second generation. It is the largest immigrant population in Denmark with >61k.

http://edu.au.dk/fileadmin/edu/Forskning/Internationale_undersoegelser/PISA/pisa_etnisk_2012.pdf
Here is some more info with UK ethnicity and GCSEs 2012/2013. Thought this data point will be good to have. This breaks down the groups in more detail.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/280689/SFR05_2014_Text_FINAL.pdf

Look at chart 6. With the Maths and English 5*A-C.

Black Africans actually pip the White British now. Chinese, Indian and Irish do the best and black Carribeans still do the worst(out of the main groups), but not by much though.
Here is some more info with UK ethnicity and GCSEs 2012/2013. Thought this data point will be good to have. This breaks down the groups in more detail.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/280689/SFR05_2014_Text_FINAL.pdf

Look at chart 6. With the Maths and English 5*A-C.

Black Africans actually pip the White British now. Chinese, Indian and Irish do the best and black Carribeans still do the worst(out of the main groups), but not by much though.


I don't focus on the Black African scores for reasons discussed prior:

(a) we know that BA do poorly in Africa
(b) we know that UK BA parents are, on average, super selected e.g., "Easterly and Nyarko, 2005. Is the brain drain good for Africa?"
(c) we know that the apparent good academic performance is present in the UK BA first generation

So a selection effect is confounded with school/cultural related factors effect. I think it's very probable that there is a strong selection effect since I have no doubt that Black Africans are biologically depressed in CA, for, at least in part, environmental reasons, and thus that a representative sample of first generation BA should underperform.

BC are more interesting because it is well documented that in the 1st Gen, they started out depressed in CA (thus there is less room for a selection argument).
Here is some more info with UK ethnicity and GCSEs 2012/2013. Thought this data point will be good to have. This breaks down the groups in more detail.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/280689/SFR05_2014_Text_FINAL.pdf

Look at chart 6. With the Maths and English 5*A-C.

Black Africans actually pip the White British now. Chinese, Indian and Irish do the best and black Carribeans still do the worst(out of the main groups), but not by much though.


Could you review my papers on race (submitted to OBG)? Your reviews won't count as peer reviews since you are not registered as a peer here or anywhere, but I could use the input.
chuck, in your blog, you have said that selection couldn't be a major explanation of the small B-W gap in UK. Does that mean you have changed your opinion ?
chuck, in your blog, you have said that selection couldn't be a major explanation of the small B-W gap in UK. Does that mean you have changed your opinion ?


Black African migrants to the UK are more recent; many kids are first generation and are bilingual. They have highly selected parents. Black Caribbean migrants came in the '50s to the '80s. BC age 10 kids would mostly be 3rd generation, with a few second; nearly all speak English and have English speaking parents. Relative to the Caribbean average, I think BC migrants were selected some, just as BC who went to Canada were. I would have to dig up the sources, though. The selection, though, was much less. So selection (and language) effects are less of a factor with this subgroups.
"a) we know that BA do poorly in Africa
(b) we know that UK BA parents are, on average, super selected e.g., "Easterly and Nyarko, 2005. Is the brain drain good for Africa?"
(c) we know that the apparent good academic performance is present in the UK BA first generation

So a selection effect is confounded with school/cultural related factors effect. I think it's very probable that there is a strong selection effect since I have no doubt that Black Africans are biologically depressed in CA, for, at least in part, environmental reasons, and thus that a representative sample of first generation BA should underperform......."


Here you seem to argue that Black African immigrant selection looks limited, albeit still significant (and greater than BC selection)
http://occidentalascent.wordpress.com/2012/02/06/is-global-race-realism-still-tenable/
chuck, in your blog, you have said that selection couldn't be a major explanation of the small B-W gap in UK. Does that mean you have changed your opinion ?


Black African migrants to the UK are more recent; many kids are first generation and are bilingual. They have highly selected parents. Black Caribbean migrants came in the '50s to the '80s. BC age 10 kids would mostly be 3rd generation, with a few second; nearly all speak English and have English speaking parents. Relative to the Caribbean average, I think BC migrants were selected some, just as BC who went to Canada were. I would have to dig up the sources, though. The selection, though, was much less. So selection (and language) effects are less of a factor with this subgroups.


Well those are still Sub Saharan Africans who are now able to match Northern Europeans in Europe without reverting to the mean and after catching up from a lower base in both IQ tests and educational attainment. This hasn't happened before in the debate as far as I can remember.

Selection might be part of it yes, but they do start from a lower base and I think are pretty poor financially on average, even less than BC. However even if you can argue selection, the mere fact they can do this after +50000 years is ominous.

At what point do you think it will be safe to call the debate and run away? When BC erase the gap with white brits? They are within a trivial hairs length gap from other whites in GCSEs now. Possibly erased it last year. I mean the gap to white brits itself isn't big either.

It takes a lot of evidence to build up scientific racialism but it doesn't take a lot to demolish it. Liberal egalitarians never needed a lack of average difference, but racialists desperately need a big enough one in IQ/education. Without that its all over.