Back to [Archive] Other discussions

Other gaps that have closed and/or closing.(other than IQ education)
This is a part question and part data thread which will show gaps and their changes on average in other traits like behavior, average height and disease rates. So it would be good if you can also contribute, at least this will help list them.

I will start with sexual/reproductive behavior between African Americans and White Americans. This specific point is using adolescent fertility rate and behavior related to sexuality.

Birth rate gap then and now for adolescents/teenagers ages 15-19. Gap closed from a difference of 73 to 23 per 1000. Edit: The gap is now 20.5 according to 2013, black birth rate is 39.9 per 1000.
2013:

Souce:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6328a6.htm

2012:
http://www.hhs.gov/ash/oah/adolescent-health-topics/images/teenbirthsgraph2011.png

Abortion rates and sexual activeness, so it cant be simply due to technology.




I'm trying to focus specifically on traits that have been correlated with genes, that is why I started with adolescent sexual behavior. It was correlated to populations in a new study dealing with life history strategy.

Africa has also seen a decrease in these but the gaps are still very large for most countries and there is potentially a huge environmental difference. So I want to focus on those with more similar environments. As can be seen with sexual activity and teenage pregnancy the gaps have been substantially closed in recent years, in the US. Not yet erased though.
Can violent crime rate decline be attributed to the incarceration rate? It cant be enough to account for it can it? I'm asking the more mathematically able here, before I add it.
This is a part question and part data thread which will show gaps and their changes on average in other traits like behavior, average height and disease rates. So it would be good if you can also contribute, at least this will help list them.


You should try to transform differences into standardized form since this is how differences are typically expressed in psychology and since comparing raw rate differences can be deceptive.

[Edit: I redid Abortion rates, forgot a zero originally]

Sexually Active..............Abortion Rate..............Birth Rate
Start 0.64...............................0.44..................... ......0.53
End 0.24...............................0.57...........................0.34

Birth rates would depend on numerous factors, such as the availability of contraceptive and rate of abortion. At very least birth and abortion rates should be added since they are indexing propensity to get pregnant. Doing this, we get:
..............Time1........Time2
Black:......196.5........78.4
White:......75.4...........29

d-value.....0.56.........0.46

I'm not impressed by that relative change.
Can violent crime rate decline be attributed to the incarceration rate? It cant be enough to account for it can it? I'm asking the more mathematically able here, before I add it.


Where is the evidence of the violent crime rate decline; could you give some estimates.
Thanks chuck.

Wait, I have found some data on contraception use, but I'm not sure how accurate it is concerning the youth since its including many ages and the youth reports are most likely off of those who self report as sexually active. However overall contraception use is lower among African Americans by the looks of it.



Youth reports by sexual activity on condom and birth control pill use. These are most likely self report so I'm not sure what to make of it. I put them simply as links so the thread isn't filled with graphs everywhere.
http://www.childtrends.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/28_Fig2.jpg
http://www.childtrends.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/33_fig2.jpg

Also an additional study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24495671
Result quote:
"Our sample included 7214 females aged 15-44 years. Compared to whites, blacks were less likely to use any contraceptive method (adjusted odds ratio, 0.65); and blacks and Hispanics were less likely to use a highly or moderately effective method (adjusted odds ratio, 0.49 and 0.57, respectively). Interaction analyses revealed that racial/ethnic disparities in contraceptive use varied by women's age, with younger women having more prominent disparities."

I think even though the overall d value change for birth rates(not accounting for contraception) being unimpressive is not so important since blacks had to make up a lot of ground in raw numbers to close that amount in d.

I will post the violence change stuff when I have more time. They aren't so hard to find though.
Admin
This is a part question and part data thread which will show gaps and their changes on average in other traits like behavior, average height and disease rates. So it would be good if you can also contribute, at least this will help list them.


You should try to transform differences into standardized form since this is how differences are typically expressed in psychology and since comparing raw rate differences can be deceptive.

[Edit: I redid Abortion rates, forgot a zero originally]

Sexually Active..............Abortion Rate..............Birth Rate
Start 0.64...............................0.44..................... ......0.53
End 0.24...............................0.57...........................0.34

Birth rates would depend on numerous factors, such as the availability of contraceptive and rate of abortion. At very least birth and abortion rates should be added since they are indexing propensity to get pregnant. Doing this, we get:
..............Time1........Time2
Black:......196.5........78.4
White:......75.4...........29

d-value.....0.56.........0.46

I'm not impressed by that relative change.


d can be deceptive too, when there is change in the standard deviation.
How would one compensate for contraceptives? Black adolescents definitely use less contraception and use less of the most effective methods.

Black females get sterilized more than whites, however that is mainly for ages 35 and over as can be seen in the second graph below. 15-24 use of this method is very little. Most of the contraception use goes to the pill, used by whites the most, especially when considering the youth.





Source for the above: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db173.htm

Also I found slightly newer birth rate data for teens from 2013. The gap is a bit smaller now too. I will update it in the opening post. For blacks its now 39.2 per 1000, which is lower than whites in 1990.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6328a6.htm

Overall the change looks impressive to me, especially since we are measuring the youth and also since there is evidence of actual decline in sexual activity by self report(Where d is pretty small at 0.24 as shown by Chuck).

PS: I do not know how to convert this into d. I'm no statistician.
Zoidberg is right about the convergence in fertility rates. This is largely due to (1) new and easier contraceptive technologies, particularly Norplant II, and (2) disintegration of social support for reproduction, particularly grandparenting. In the African American community, grandparenting used to provide single mothers with a valuable source of child support. Now, grandparents are increasingly refusing to assume this role.

To be honest, I'm not sure what Dr. Zoidberg is getting at. No one is arguing that fertility rates are hardwired. Fertility is influenced by certain hardwired predispositions (pair bonding, paternal investment, etc.) but those factors are being overwhelmed by the effects of social atomization and easy-to-use contraception.

I'm surprised by Figure 1. Why are AA students becoming less sexually active? Have any scholars looked beyond the statistics to find out what is happening?

P.S. I'm calling you Dr. Zoidberg because I assume (a) that is your real name and (b) you have a Ph.D. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Admin
There has been a convergence of immigrant and Native fertility in Denmark.
Zoidberg is right about the convergence in fertility rates. This is largely due to (1) new and easier contraceptive technologies, particularly Norplant II, and (2) disintegration of social support for reproduction, particularly grandparenting. In the African American community, grandparenting used to provide single mothers with a valuable source of child support. Now, grandparents are increasingly refusing to assume this role.

To be honest, I'm not sure what Dr. Zoidberg is getting at. No one is arguing that fertility rates are hardwired. Fertility is influenced by certain hardwired predispositions (pair bonding, paternal investment, etc.) but those factors are being overwhelmed by the effects of social atomization and easy-to-use contraception.

I'm surprised by Figure 1. Why are AA students becoming less sexually active? Have any scholars looked beyond the statistics to find out what is happening?

P.S. I'm calling you Dr. Zoidberg because I assume (a) that is your real name and (b) you have a Ph.D. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


1: Would that mean black grand parents are also changing their behavior to be more similar to white grand parents? We can add that here later on.

2: What I am getting at is that the sexual behavior(also other behaviors) of two different races that are argued to be genetically different in sexuality on average are in fact converging as the environment gets more similar. Bare in mind that the gap is most likely even closer than presented here because whites use more contraception. IE they are more sexually active than the fertility graphs point out, not so much for blacks though. I am also focusing specifically on age groups and behaviors that have been recently associated with genetic variants.

3: I am not sure if any scholars have looked at it, but what possible explanation could there be other than more similar environment?

4: I am no doctor, nor do I have a PHD.
There has been a convergence of immigrant and Native fertility in Denmark.


Thanks.
"Would that mean black grand parents are also changing their behavior to be more similar to white grand parents?"

It's not that blacks are changing their behavior to become more like whites. Rather, both whites and blacks are undergoing the same process of social atomization. Grandparents increasingly want to live their own lives and can no longer be counted on to provide child care, at least not on a daily basis.

The decline of grandparenting is depressing both white and black fertility, but the effect is greater for black mothers because they are less able to count on the biological father for support. So they have no one else to turn to (other than the government).

"What I am getting at is that the sexual behavior(also other behaviors) of two different races that are argued to be genetically different in sexuality on average are in fact converging as the environment gets more similar."

Well, no. Sexual behavior correlates with fertility only if (a) reliable contraception is unavailable and (b) voluntary childlessness is stigmatized. That is no longer the case.

"I am not sure if any scholars have looked at it, but what possible explanation could there be other than more similar environment?"

Many scholars have looked into this question. When fertility is uncoupled from sexual behavior, in a cultural environment that doesn't promote fertility, many people will postpone reproduction indefinitely, often until it's too late. That's true for almost all humans.

Believe it or not, some things apply to all of us. If you deprive a person of food, he or she will starve to death. If you throw a person off a cliff, he or she will probably die.
"Would that mean black grand parents are also changing their behavior to be more similar to white grand parents?"

It's not that blacks are changing their behavior to become more like whites. Rather, both whites and blacks are undergoing the same process of social atomization. Grandparents increasingly want to live their own lives and can no longer be counted on to provide child care, at least not on a daily basis.


Huh? Grandparents increasingly wanting to live their own lives is literally a change in behavior and social "atomization" is also a change in Behavior.

So I will take that as a yes we can use it.

The decline of grandparenting is depressing both white and black fertility, but the effect is greater for black mothers because they are less able to count on the biological father for support. So they have no one else to turn to (other than the government).


But they are aborting less, using overall contraception less and more importantly are reporting being less sexually active.

Well, no. Sexual behavior correlates with fertility only if (a) reliable contraception is unavailable and (b) voluntary childlessness is stigmatized. That is no longer the case.

Many scholars have looked into this question. When fertility is uncoupled from sexual behavior, in a cultural environment that doesn't promote fertility, many people will postpone reproduction indefinitely, often until it's too late. That's true for almost all humans.


But the abortion rate is closing, and the use of contraception is less than whites especially for the youth who are the main focus here.

There is no need to uncouple anything here. Their sexual activity is becoming more like whites in a similar environment. Its not only fertility and abortion, its also the difference in sexual activity which has closed the most. Accounting for contraception use will only close the gaps more, because whites use more of it.

You are reaching too much.

EDIT: I posted the wrong image link. Its corrected now.
Breakdown by gender for sexual activity(self report). The difference between black and white females is trivial now.


Some more sexual activity changes by race. Images are really big so thats why I didn't use the image option.
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/images/2012-images/YRBS-fact-sheet-Fig3.jpg
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/images/2012-images/YRBS-fact-sheet-Fig2.jpg
Source page:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/2012/YRBS-Graphics2012.html
"Huh? Grandparents increasingly wanting to live their own lives is literally a change in behavior and social "atomization" is also a change in Behavior."

The difference, my dear Zoidberg, is that this isn't a case of blacks converging toward so-called "white" norms of behavior. It's a case of social norms disintegrating in both groups. The resulting depression of fertility is greater for black women because grandparenting is more crucial. Black men are less involved in child care.

"Its not only fertility and abortion, its also the difference in sexual activity which has closed the most."

So far, this is the only factoid that deserves discussion. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but much effort has gone into preventing the transmission of STDs, particularly AIDS, among teenagers. The wiki page provides a good summary:

" [...] federal government support has made abstinence the de facto focus of sex education in the United States, so that opponents frequently adopt the line that abstinence education is acceptable only if it is combined with other methods, such as instruction in the use of condoms, and easy availability thereof. Most nations of Western Europe use more comprehensive measures, and in sharp contrast to the heated discussion in the U.S., abstinence is hardly discussed as an educational measure.

A U.S. federal government-promoted abstinence-only program was aimed at teens in 1981 in order to discourage premarital sex and unwanted pregnancies. However, recent studies conducted by Mathematica Policy Research, showed ineffectiveness of this program. The Responsible Education About Life Act was introduced by Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) and Representatives Barbara Lee (D-CA) and Christopher Shays (R-CT) to support age-appropriate sexual education. This program is focused to provide teenagers with science-based information on sexual health, so that they can make a sound decision regarding their sex-life.[26]

In 2006, the George W. Bush administration expanded abstinence programs from teens to adults, by introducing programs to encourage unmarried adults to remain abstinent until marriage.[27] Family-planning advocates and researchers denounced the program as unrealistic, due to the rising age of first-time marriage in the United States.[28]

In 2010, University of Pennsylvania researchers released a model study showing that abstinence programs can be effective. The study randomly assigned some middle-school students to an eight-hour abstinence curriculum and others to sex-ed programs that included contraceptives and mixed messages. Penn researchers found that the abstinence-only offering reduced subsequent sexual activity by one-third more than other programs.[29]"

This isn't a case of people following certain social norms on their own initiative. It's a result of deliberate social policy, which often involves questionable methods:

"Author Judith Levine has argued that there might be a natural tendency of abstinence educators to escalate their messages: "Like advertising, which must continually jack up its seduction just to stay visible as other advertising proliferates, abstinence education had to make sex scarier and scarier and, at the same time, chastity sweeter"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abstinence

So, yeah. African American teens respond to scare tactics, as well as a legitimate fear of STDs. They've often seen the results at close hand.
Their sexual activity is becoming more like whites in a similar environment.


If this claim is to be believed, there must be a regional factor. That is, blacks living in a black neighborhoods will behave like blacks, and blacks living in white neighborhoods should behave like whites. But SES factors also must be held constant, i.e., by comparing blacks in black and white neighborhood having similar socio-economic background (and other confoundings). If I remember well, this isn't true for black-white criminality gap. Maybe it's different for sexual activity, but only data can tell that.
Their sexual activity is becoming more like whites in a similar environment.


If this claim is to be believed, there must be a regional factor. That is, blacks living in a black neighborhoods will behave like blacks, and blacks living in white neighborhoods should behave like whites. But SES factors also must be held constant, i.e., by comparing blacks in black and white neighborhood having similar socio-economic background (and other confoundings). If I remember well, this isn't true for black-white criminality gap. Maybe it's different for sexual activity, but only data can tell that.


Well this shows that SES and neighborhood environment has a large effect on the race effect in adolescent sexual activity. Its from 1994, when these differences were peaking.

http://www.brynmawr.edu/socialwork/GSSW/Vartanian/Handouts/Sexhazard.pdf
"Huh? Grandparents increasingly wanting to live their own lives is literally a change in behavior and social "atomization" is also a change in Behavior."

The difference, my dear Zoidberg, is that this isn't a case of blacks converging toward so-called "white" norms of behavior. It's a case of social norms disintegrating in both groups. The resulting depression of fertility is greater for black women because grandparenting is more crucial. Black men are less involved in child care.

This isn't a case of people following certain social norms on their own initiative. It's a result of deliberate social policy, which often involves questionable methods:

So, yeah. African American teens respond to scare tactics, as well as a legitimate fear of STDs. They've often seen the results at close hand.


1: White grandparents are increasingly becoming more involved in child rearing and black grandparents less. IE they are converging, which means the grandparents are becoming more alike when it comes to child rearing.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2010/09/09/since-the-start-of-the-great-recession-more-children-raised-by-grandparents/

The rest of what you are trying to say is that somehow blacks want to have more sex but now plan their life better and are more reasonable all because they are scared by some sex ed classes and are noticing what damage their previous behavior has done. Also that this isn't them actually making the choice to better themselves but instead its some kind of mind control from the government.
Zoidberg,

The increase in white grandparenting is a response to the current recession. (It says so in the article you cite.). Black grandparenting has been less influenced by economic cycles. It's a response to the low involvement of black men in child care. You seem to have trouble processing that fact.

"The rest of what you are trying to say is that somehow blacks want to have more sex but now plan their life better and are more reasonable all because they are scared by some sex ed classes"

If you strip away the snark, that's more or less what I'm saying. We're talking about teenagers here, and many teenagers are afraid. The link between the current trend of sexual abstinence and STD education has been shown in a number of controlled studies.

Zoidberg, you have trouble engaging with people in genuine academic discussion. You'll have to learn to overcome this deficiency.
Zoidberg
The increase in white grandparenting is a response to the current recession. (It says so in the article you cite.). Black grandparenting has been less influenced by economic cycles. It's a response to the low involvement of black men in child care. You seem to have trouble processing that fact.


No it says the "sharp increase" since 07 was thanks to the recession, if you didn't notice the first graph it shows a constant increase well before it.

It cant be thanks to the low involvement of dads because look at the single parenthood rate since the 90s when everything peaked. No significant change. In fact it looks as though it decreased a little for the under 18s(aka Youth).



Birth rates for blacks were falling rapidly well before single parent families were big enough to be causing a difference. Fertility rate actually had a huge increase starting from the 80s to the 90s when single parent families peaked. So the decrease in fertility cannot be thanks to daddy not being around.

http://www.familyfacts.org/charts/215/birth-and-fertility-rates-have-fallen-significantly-since-1960

As for your sex scare argument, I will take it as a joke.

All the opposing cultural effects like the sexuality depicted in the media makes your argument laughable. For being so scared they are promoting it to an extreme level, both blacks and whites. I'm sure sex ed class has more influence than Nicki Minaj, pfft.
Admin
Most studies of these 'Scared Straight'-type programs that are proper find no evidence of effectiveness. I'd say there is a very high probability it is also so for whichever sex campaign they tried. Public campaigns do not influence behavior very much.